Curse

bsumlin · Oct 26, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebe

+9 hp has nothing to do with prestige.
+9 hp is not visible to other characters.
+9 hp affects your performance in game.

You're right, +9 hp isn't visible to other players because it's usually gone in one hit. Is that worth 30k? One more hit? Major vigor runes are just as good, but many players insist on having "perfect" items.

Hello gold sink.

Phoebe · Oct 26, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsumlin

You're right, +9 hp isn't visible to other players because it's usually gone in one hit. Is that worth 30k? One more hit? Major vigor runes are just as good, but many players insist on having "perfect" items.

Hello gold sink.

Player A with 5 hp left vs. dead Player B with -4 hp = Player A wins due to superior vigor and Player B loses due to being too poor.
That's not prestige, that's a tangible in-game advantage.

gr3g · Oct 26, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

"Wins"? Are we talking PvP here? Because, if so, sup vigor is free for PvP chars.

For PvE, if you ever get down to 5 hp, you have already lost. Might as well slit your wrists at that point.

reetkever · Oct 26, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsumlin

You're right, +9 hp isn't visible to other players because it's usually gone in one hit. Is that worth 30k? One more hit? Major vigor runes are just as good, but many players insist on having "perfect" items.

Hello gold sink.

No, it's not worth 30K, so why are the prices so high then? Why can't Anet make Rune drops more common? Is it because it might affect the economy? Well it can't possibly hurt the economy more than the AoE update, not to mention the new White/Brown dyes, which sell for 100K or more.

Jetdoc · Oct 26, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

As stated earlier in this thread, I actually think the new AI changes will make it EASIER to kill large groups. If you're soloing and getting pounded, and half of your enemies scatter away because they are being damaged, that will allow you to focus fire on the remaining enemies.

Yes, it will take longer to kill them off, but IMO killing 10 enemies one at a time is a whole lot easier than trying to kill them all at the same time.

This definitely hurts the repetitive farmer, but can only benefit the true solo PvE players like myself. Nice update A-Net!

saphir · Oct 26, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

This is an awesome update. Monsters are less retarded than they were and PvE doesn't feel like as much of an exploit-fest.

That being said, everywhere I farm remains untouched. Ranger FoW forest, elementalist titan farming, runs through talmarck with my ranger, trapping in the UW, all untouched. The people whining about this need to move on, try other builds, and quit whining.

I'm actually looking forward to the oppurtunity to get a full group in the UW instead of 2 manning everything.

Actually I found monsters to be much more retarded and less realistic after the update. I think their AI still needs the new changes to be tweaked quite a bit.

I went on two separate pug runs last night after the update - one in uw, one in for, and it was ridiculously easy. after 3 people in our fow drop, we cleared out the burning forest area w/ fair ease w/ only one monk. With 6 people in our group, we cleared out the infernul wurms are still w/ only one monk. I was SS, and we had 2 nukers. What made it so easy? The mob aggro targets just one player, regardless of aggro range. No more chain aggro. you could be standing right behind your aggro warrior, and as soon as that first shot it fired, they stick to him like glue. And since they think they'll be most likely to kill him, they don't bother to run much from aoe. When they do run from aoe, they will invariably go right back to attacking the warrior. Even better was when the warrior went down and someone resurrected him, all mobs would do a immediate 180 and run for the warrior lol.

Our warrior wasn't bearing a load of sup runes, had no dp 90% of the time, and was well armored.

Similar thing in UW, I've never had an easier time in a pug. It wasn't even that great of a pug (and i've been in many of them for uw), 3/8 people had never been there before had were skilled completely inappropriately. Aggro range was a mess, but it didn't matter. The mobs would just stick to one target.

Sort of like how none of the 5 casters in my fow gruop was interrupted even once by the spiders in the fow spider cave. They loved attacking our warrior too much, even if the spiders dropped right on top of our heads. It seemed like the AI would pick just one player and go for him, even if they were brought into aggro by someone else in the party.

Anyway.. AI now seems to be broken. Ridiculously easy, but broken.

Skyy High · Oct 26, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

To Arenanet, this new patch was supposed to make things more challenging. One of Arenanet's main points was that they wanted to discourage farming and encourage team play: they wanted everyone involved in Guild Wars, hence its name. However, there were several major flaws found.

1. (Most) people don't spend their lives on Guild Wars
According to this new patch, it's expected that people, instead of doing a couple of runs, spend 1 hour doing 1 run to possibly get a chance of getting some gold. Arenanet probably felt that they were gearing towards the people that spent so much time on Guild Wars. Unfortunately, it's necessary to realize that a huge chunk of their userbase comes from people who have lives.

2. Money is, and always will be, an issue
With Arenanet's new patch, a utopian ideology can be derived from their perspective: they wanted a game without much importance to money, or gear. This can obviously be seen by the level capped at 20, and unique items easy to find. Unfortunately, with this new patch, they entirely contradicted their policy, and made things therefore infinitely more difficult. The best part about Guild Wars, however, and how it attracted people was its facility in gameplay. You could, potentially, create your own build, go out, and farm to get those items you needed. Now that it's near-impossible to go farming without taking 6-7 hours, perhaps they should rethink their ideology.

3. Contemplate the consequences
What did Arenanet expect the reaction was going to be from this patch? Did they expect a submissive public in response to this "upgrade"? What was their rationale in releasing such a possibly controversial patch the DAY before their new "expansion" came out? Arenanet obviously did not think this through clearly in realistic concerns, as if they did, it would have certianly dawned upon them that the Dervish uses AOE spells. Maybe they thought people wouldn't figure that out?

These are just some major flaws I saw in Arenanet's causation in releasing this new patch... perhaps some argument will invoke a repeal of the so-called "upgrade"?

Counter Arguments to the OP:
1) The people who don't spend their lives on GW generally are not the ones spending massive amounts of time farming. The people with relatively little time should actually be the least inclined to farm, because they actually have to play the game and have fun when they get the chance. If a player is struggling to get on for a half hour a day, and during that entire half hour all he/she ever did was troll runs...that player needs help. If you can't farm for hours, you're not going to make more money than you would doing a mission, and you'd have a lot more fun doing that.

2) The fact that it is, and continues to be, incredibly easy to get perfect weapons NEVER had anything to do with the ease of farming. There are collectors and dirt-cheap greens everywhere, as well as cheap to medium priced golds and purples. Even the rarest skins are cheap as hell if you don't mind a req of 12 or so (and most players have builds that are perfectly fine with that). The fact that hardcore farmers' gold supplies are now going to dry up substantially will not drive up prices on most items, because 1) the supply of most items is either infinite (collectors) or near-infinite (most greens), and 2) the items that were cheap already are of no importance to the hardcore farmers. They already had weapons better than that; just because they're running out of their millions now doesn't mean they'd speculate on weapons they wouldn't have touched before this update.

3) Has no one else noticed that AoE spells actually got a buff in this update? Monsters no longer flee from them if they have a decent amount of health; this turns AoE spells from "useless" to "opening spells to soften up a large group". MELEE monsters no longer bunch up; hitting a group of casters with an AoE is still just as effective.

Tijger · Oct 26, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Just did Tombs with a good 8 man balanced group which included one newbie warrior. It was the same or perhaps a little easier then before the update (I refuse to call it a nerf since more skills got buffed then nerfed), frankly I fail to see the reason for all the whining and shouting.

Fox Reeveheart · Oct 26, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

I used to be a pro water ele elona mino farmer. I would only be there for an hour or two to get a few k to help save up for something nice since I knew nightfall weapons/shields would be great. And especially for armor and stuff....

with this new update its become incredibly difficult to farm there now with my watery invincimentalist (mist form + serpent's quikness ftw) people say I have to keep them aggroed which means running around and such but at times when you are surrounded and cant move out of your spot that becomes pretty much impossible.... I was wondering why the minos weren't dieing after 10 minutes (takes like 3-4 minutes for one farm).

This made me very sad

I wanted to farm on the hope of a white dye for quick cash... well scratch that idea. </3

I like to farm with unique builds, not 55 because its just lame, now its like they are forcing me to do it!!!!!

How the heck can Anet make things like white dye drop only so players can set the price themselves and nerf farming even more!? I have become slowly more and more tired of this game. But now its just... ugh. my only livelihood is gone... all i have left is jade arena farming or w/e its called left but my comp overheats and stuff when i go in there so scratch that out too

what do i do for cash now? AND DONT TELL ME YOU GET ENOUGH CASH THROUGHOUT THE STORY BECAUSE YOU DONT! I know I played through prophecies 5-6 times and factions twice!!! you get about 10-15k total in prophecies but you spend that on keeping up to date with armor and such, not to mention the big sink at drognars.

Faowri · Oct 26, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Also, what's with all the 'start PLAYING the game' in this thread, you guys want to say that gathering gold to buy something in the game is NOT playing the game? 15K armor and perfect weapons aren;t in the game for nothing, how is it wrong to collect gold to buy them? Well it's okay when you say that you only play the game when doing missions or quests, but just do every friggin mission 12 times like I did, and you'll be bored with 'playing the game'.

Exactly, the elitist attitudes annoy me far more than the farmers' whining XD

Your casual, "I'd really like this nifty green" farmers don't farm because they want to experiment with builds; they farm because they want money, and why not use a proven and tested build to do just that? There's no need to go flaming other people's playing preferences just because the flamer might have some vague, probably unjustified sense of gaming superiority.

A_Muppet · Oct 26, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

This thread sounds familiar.

...the first Aoe whinefest, saying that Gw was totally broken and impossible to farm...?
...nope, not that.
The whinefest about warrior armour's elemental damage being reduced, so warriors were broken and impossible to tank with now?
..nope.
The -damage bonus for shields being made to reduce against phsycal only, so tanking was broken and impossible to do?
The bugfix (note that-BUGFIX) that stopped the -2 armour bonus from Ascalon armour applying to the entire body, and just to the bodypart?

....Hm. Nope. It sounds like-all of them!

Suck it up-if tens of thousands didn't use the same build 24/7 and you actually displayed a little flair and originality then maybe you wouldn't suffer-I don't use any of these farming builds and I got my full fissure armour just FINE! Hell, this patch BUFFED my builds.

Winterclaw · Oct 26, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

My big question in all this is what is going to happen to Dervishes now? Monsters now scatter on any aoe effect or defense that counter attacks. Scythes are AoE weapons. If a dervish attacks a group of monsters they will split up which not only makes things more difficult on the team, it also renders the dervish weapon's benifits as useless now.

Now a dervish might be able to keep himself from being overwhelmed, but it'll still be a problem.

And from personal experience and from what I've heard the following cause fleeing:
SoJ
Glad's defense
Riposte / DRiposte
Sym Visage (maybe)

Marc0 · Oct 26, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

As stated earlier in this thread, I actually think the new AI changes will make it EASIER to kill large groups. If you're soloing and getting pounded, and half of your enemies scatter away because they are being damaged, that will allow you to focus fire on the remaining enemies.

Yes, it will take longer to kill them off, but IMO killing 10 enemies one at a time is a whole lot easier than trying to kill them all at the same time.

I don't see it this way, but perhaps you play a different profession or use different builds. With only a few mobs on you after they start to scatter, you will be unable to charge your energy fast enough with benetti's or won't get enough heals from live vicariously or a vampiric axe....this causes several problems for the a cyclone axe or glads defense build because you are TRYING to get all the mobs to die at the same time.

Granted, I'm sure this will have some positive affects somewhere, I just don't see it being solo farming.

reetkever · Oct 26, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

My big question in all this is what is going to happen to Dervishes now? Monsters now scatter on any aoe effect or defense that counter attacks. Scythes are AoE weapons. If a dervish attacks a group of monsters they will split up which not only makes things more difficult on the team, it also renders the dervish weapon's benifits as useless now.

Now a dervish might be able to keep himself from being overwhelmed, but it'll still be a problem.

And from personal experience and from what I've heard the following cause fleeing:
SoJ
Glad's defense
Riposte / DRiposte
Sym Visage (maybe)

What will happen to Dervishes,? Well at first things'll go fine I guess, not everyone knows about the AoE effects, and there will be new players who buy Nightfall, but later, when everyone knows what missions are about, Dervishes will only be accepted in certain missions, and will be left alone on some other missions, cause scattering might mean death there.

Just see a Dervish as an Ele using Firestorm all the time, and everywhere he goes. In some missions, the scattering might turn out favorable, but in most cases, the monsters run off into other mobs, together with the warrior who was attacking, and so the new mob will be aggroed as well.

Akhilleus · Oct 26, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

there are a thousand ways to make money, farming is just one, and by far, not the most profitable.
people who think its impossible to make money just dont know how to. plain and simple.

reetkever · Oct 26, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

there are a thousand ways to make money, farming is just one, and by far, not the most profitable.
people who think its impossible to make money just dont know how to. plain and simple.

you're like person number 122 who says that :P
But none of these people actually tell what they do, or their farming build, so I actually doubt you have any.

BeXoR · Oct 26, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

One of the good things about this game vs other MMOs was that things were achievable by a vast number of player types. If you couldn't play every night, you could still manage to get the nice stuff.

Now that these things have become harder to obtain, a lot of people aren't going to be as happy with the game.

Screw the casual players! This is a MMO damnit! You're not allowed to have a life!

bromortegh · Oct 26, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

You guys who love criticising:

FARMING IS NOT JUST ABOUT MAKING MONEY, PEOPLE HAVE FUN KILLING HORDES OF MONSTERS BY THEMSELVES AND WITH THE NEW UPDATE WE ARE SCREWED REGARDING SOLO PLAYING. I didn't like factions because the solo farming was boring and i ahve already cancelled my preorder pack for nightfall and i will not buy it!

supaet · Oct 26, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bromortegh

You guys who love criticising:

FARMING IS NOT JUST ABOUT MAKING MONEY, PEOPLE HAVE FUN KILLING HORDES OF MONSTERS BY THEMSELVES AND WITH THE NEW UPDATE WE ARE SCREWED REGARDING SOLO PLAYING. I didn't like factions because the solo farming was boring and i ahve already cancelled my preorder pack for nightfall and i will not buy it!

make a new build if you want to solo...I hope you don't buy it. You ruin the game for others :-p
btw, how come so many w/mo's on this page =.=''

inscribed · Oct 26, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

So people are complaing because they can't get every single rare skin/item they want easily? You have got to be kidding....

You people just like to complain. It'd be one thing if this was a valid concern, but seriously.

ArenaNet never said a casual player could get anything they want, just that they'd be on the same playing field as everyone else in PvP. This does not change that.